Comments on: #2- Jesus Was A Man! http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php LRC, Houston - An Evolving Spiritual Community Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:56:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ernie http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php/comment-page-1#comment-4299 Ernie Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:48:29 +0000 http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php#comment-4299 Well thought out! 1-I do not believe in <strong>original sin,</strong> but original blessing (<strong>Matthew Fox</strong>), but just being humans means we do junk real early on! And coming into a junky environment that billions before us have created isn't a good thing as well. :-( 2-Catholics like to do the "<strong>Limbo</strong>" on infant death, which thinking is now somewhat "in limbo". 3-The "<strong>virgin metaphor</strong>" of your description, certainly isn't what the metaphor that is being used as for those that don't take it <strong>literally </strong>(though that should be a plus for your thinking). 4-Let's add this to the mix. Jesus came not as the religious <strong>SUBSTITUTE,</strong> but as the spiritual <strong>REPRESENTATIVE</strong>. Good job, by the way! I'd have a drink to your thinking any day. :-) Well thought out!

1-I do not believe in original sin, but original blessing (Matthew Fox), but just being humans means we do junk real early on! And coming into a junky environment that billions before us have created isn’t a good thing as well. :-(

2-Catholics like to do the “Limbo” on infant death, which thinking is now somewhat “in limbo”.

3-The “virgin metaphor” of your description, certainly isn’t what the metaphor that is being used as for those that don’t take it literally (though that should be a plus for your thinking).

4-Let’s add this to the mix. Jesus came not as the religious SUBSTITUTE, but as the spiritual REPRESENTATIVE.

Good job, by the way! I’d have a drink to your thinking any day. :-)

]]> By: Third Camp http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php/comment-page-1#comment-4298 Third Camp Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:37:08 +0000 http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php#comment-4298 Let me introduce a third camp. I really have no position on this (at this time), but just following the trail: One has to ask is the virgin birth a real issue? If man was created by God, then man was created by a “virgin birth” event. Therefore the original state of man would be the same for Jesus whether he was born of a virgin or not. Then, that being said, does it matter if Jesus was/is God and became man or was man and became God(like)? If we (all humans) are born in a perfect state I am not sure the virgin birth matters. It seems the only real purpose for the virgin birth was to establish divinity and perfection in order for his sacrifice to be relevant, but to some extent man’s (Jesus’) divinity was established at birth/creation. Of course there is the born into sin thing I hear about. To me it’s like going into a room, I am in it (the room), but I am not the room. I am in France, but I am not French, etc. I am born into sin i.e this world, but not of it (I seem to recall a similar idea somewhere in the Bible). I am not convinced that we are born defective sinners. Sin(ning) is clearly a choice leading to a state of being, not the immediate result of birth. Just as “Adam” became “defective” through his actions, so do we. If we are born sinners then every child who dies at birth or very young would not be in a good spiritual place. I don’t know anyone who believes that. This is perplexing... So, are we created/born in a perfect spiritual state; or are we created/born in a sinful spiritual state? If you believe the latter, then you need a virgin birth for Christ to separate himself as perfect. So, what is the third camp’s mantra? Perhaps you can be born perfect without a virgin birth. The virgin birth may just be a metaphor for our (mankind's) original created state. Divinity, just as sin, is a choice we make. Let me introduce a third camp. I really have no position on this (at this time), but just following the trail: One has to ask is the virgin birth a real issue? If man was created by God, then man was created by a “virgin birth” event. Therefore the original state of man would be the same for Jesus whether he was born of a virgin or not. Then, that being said, does it matter if Jesus was/is God and became man or was man and became God(like)? If we (all humans) are born in a perfect state I am not sure the virgin birth matters. It seems the only real purpose for the virgin birth was to establish divinity and perfection in order for his sacrifice to be relevant, but to some extent man’s (Jesus’) divinity was established at birth/creation. Of course there is the born into sin thing I hear about. To me it’s like going into a room, I am in it (the room), but I am not the room. I am in France, but I am not French, etc. I am born into sin i.e this world, but not of it (I seem to recall a similar idea somewhere in the Bible). I am not convinced that we are born defective sinners. Sin(ning) is clearly a choice leading to a state of being, not the immediate result of birth. Just as “Adam” became “defective” through his actions, so do we. If we are born sinners then every child who dies at birth or very young would not be in a good spiritual place. I don’t know anyone who believes that. This is perplexing… So, are we created/born in a perfect spiritual state; or are we created/born in a sinful spiritual state? If you believe the latter, then you need a virgin birth for Christ to separate himself as perfect. So, what is the third camp’s mantra? Perhaps you can be born perfect without a virgin birth. The virgin birth may just be a metaphor for our (mankind’s) original created state. Divinity, just as sin, is a choice we make.

]]> By: Ernie http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php/comment-page-1#comment-4297 Ernie Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:41:04 +0000 http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php#comment-4297 You're right on. As someone has said, Satan's greatest weapon has been the church- which has taught a doctrine the people literally could not follow (a virgin birth) You’re right on. As someone has said, Satan’s greatest weapon has been the church- which has taught a doctrine the people literally could not follow (a virgin birth)

]]> By: Sammie http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php/comment-page-1#comment-4296 Sammie Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:31:32 +0000 http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php#comment-4296 The more I think and meditate on the subject the more I lean strongly towards Knox's view. How can I even begin to think I could follow Jesus if he was not a human being and instead was someone who was born and bred from some sort of hybrid womb? I'm not in any way meaning to be disrespectful but it is already hard enough to die to the flesh and aspire to be like Jesus. If I say that He is born of a human I stand a chance and can do the things and even greater that He said I,we, could do. Jesus being a human brings me comfort and peace, I believe He knows and has felt my pain, my fear, etc. Yes, the more I think of it the more I think Aguinas is way off in His thinking. The more I think and meditate on the subject the more I lean strongly towards Knox’s view. How can I even begin to think I could follow Jesus if he was not a human being and instead was someone who was born and bred from some sort of hybrid womb? I’m not in any way meaning to be disrespectful but it is already hard enough to die to the flesh and aspire to be like Jesus. If I say that He is born of a human I stand a chance and can do the things and even greater that He said I,we, could do. Jesus being a human brings me comfort and peace, I believe He knows and has felt my pain, my fear, etc. Yes, the more I think of it the more I think Aguinas is way off in His thinking.

]]> By: Carol Fields http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php/comment-page-1#comment-4295 Carol Fields Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:59:04 +0000 http://www.lrchouston.com/archive/2-jesus-was-a-man.php#comment-4295 I agree...one it answers questions I have always had since I was a child and I would ponder many things about Jesus and us becoming like Him, doing things He did and even GREATER, so He said Himself....two, what your comments say are readily and easily understood. I agree…one it answers questions I have always had since I was a child and I would ponder many things about Jesus and us becoming like Him, doing things He did and even GREATER, so He said Himself….two, what your comments say are readily and easily understood.

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