Something that the church either hides or is not privy of (and if not, why not) is the history of the Nicene Creed and thus what we today call modern and Western Christianity. When you get down to it, much of the church today could be rightly call Constantinians, rather than Christians. Otherwise known as Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus (280–337 AD), commonly known as Constantine I, (among Roman Catholics) and Constantine the Great, or Saint Constantine (among Eastern Orthodox Christians), was a Roman Emperor, proclaimed Augustus by his troops in 306. And the connection is?
Why do modern-day Christians believe in the trinity?
1-Because God said?
2-Because a Christian ecumenical council decreed?
3-Because religious tradition developed it?
No on every account. Every one!
Constantine summond the 2,800 Bishops from around the know world to meet in Nicea and come up with unified “Christian concept”. There were too many divisions, too many factions. Seems as though nothing has changed in 1700 years, eh? Some 1,000 Bishops had the integrity to day that an emperor should not be directing religios affairs. They stayed home. Of the 1,880 who came, 1,500+ saw the handwriting on the wall and either left or were thrown out by Constantine on the first vote that didn’t go his way!
He was the emperor after all. 
The 318 that remained were threatened with ex-communication if they didn’t do as he said. Additionally, he appointed a man who he could control to direct the group and be his go-between. The man was Athanasius (Athanasius of Alexandria) (293-373). He ws n ot even a bishop but a deacon of the Bishop of Alexandria.
Can you see where this is all headed?
What Constantine wanted and what he got was basically an early draft of the Athanasian Creed (which is a statement of Christian Trinitarian doctrine). Are you surprised? Constantine (not God, not the Bishops) declared that Jesus was co-equal, co-eternal, and co-substantive with the Father. History shows that Constantine himself added the co-substantive (homo-ousios) position personally.
Do I believe in the trinity? Yes!
But, I ask the question again. Are we Christians or Constantinians in out trinitarian beliefs?
An honest question don’t you think?
Pretty wild (and bold). So the “Trinity” concept was made up within the creed? So that makes it an early “forced doctrine,” coined by the left-over council of Bishops? Is that right?
Do we have any history of their charter from Constantine? Did he turn them loose or did he ride herd on the outcomes (with his own tweaks)?
The trinity was debated for 500 years and depending upon what year (say 325 vs. 336 vs. 381) you got a different concept of the trinity. Bottom line is that the emperors had more to say about it than did the church fathers.
Constantine RAN the show with ex-communication as the whip, which he used. And there’s lots of history about this time frame…..unlike 30-33CE
I swear, every time I read lrc & there’s a part where you say click on Beyond Theism I get something whispering to me that I am going to spend the day iritated!!!
Even though we say this creed every Sunday at my church, this click doesn’t get remotely close to your sex and the church blogs.
The uncomfortable thing is, though, that I am questioning nearly every single thing and/or story in the Bible. For myself as well as what I want Shelby to learn. Faith & trust in God are seriously coming into play here,and I for one am wishing yet again that I was in Houston with y’all and we could disagree and/or talk in person.
The people you are guiding don’t know how fortunate they are! And you are still at the head of something I see as very successful!!!
And isn’t THIS exactly the point? People say,
“I don’t want my kids to hear that”. Hear what? You don’t want your kids to know the TRUTH? You want them to believe in religious stories? You don’t want them to BE FREE (which only the truth can)? You don’t want them to come into adulthood with TRUTH on their side, but “wild stories” that the world will easily take apart (regardless of how strong your argument).
Once we step back and get our true foundation in God, there’s no greater story that we can tell our kids than the love of God- the TRUTH of God!
And I am right there with you sir. (How many times in our history have I called you that?:) But now questions are hitting me from the left and the right questioning my foundation. Which, in turn, makes me question what truth, what real truth, should Shelby form her foundation on?
And since she came from me,you KNOW she can argue her point with almost anyone if she believes in it strongly enough!:)
Our children deserve BETTER than we had it and I’m not just talking financial lifestyle!