The Bible is the SACRED Christian document WRITTEN by MAN, but definitely inspiring literature. When one moves out of “pulpit preaching”, particularly in Southern America, and into an honest theological discussion from men and women who experts in Bible study, one encounters a very different Paul. And, of course, a very different Bible. It’s no less important. In fact, it’s far more exciting!
New Testament scholars Raymond Brown and John Mier have contributed greatly to my life and my ability to make sense out of Saul who became Paul. At times Paul comes off as a woman-hating, slavery promoting, homophobic individual and then at other times he’s one of the early Christian mystics that time traveled to other dimensions.
How does one reconcile such depictions?
My answers came when I realized HOW the New Testament came into existence. How groups of Christians fought over what would be the final draft- the canonized and sanitized version. My understanding was enhanced when I shook off the false teachings of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility and allowed the Spirit that’s within me: to discern what’s truth, and what’s not. After all, isn’t that why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit in the first place? And yet many Christians continue to not listen!
The Radical Paul:
He is the one who wrote the seven books that go by the names of: Romans, 1st and 2nd Corinthians, I Thessalonians, Galatians, Philippians, and Philemon. Internal study of these books show that they were most probably written between 48 and 60 CE, some 10-20 years before Mark penned his gospel. Here we see a Paul who is bold who saw the distinction between the historical Jesus and the spiritual Christos. Thus Paul seldom quotes Jesus but speaks of the “Christ within”, the “body of Christ”, and such.
The Reactionary Paul:
The three so-called pastoral letters of Titus and 1 & 2 Timothy were not written by Paul. No way- no how. The internal evidence puts these as having been written around 100CE, or about 30-40 years after Nero had Paul put to death (64CE). They were written in the NAME of Paul which was not an unusual thing to do in those days. It was looked upon as honoring. And of course there’s a big departure in “thinking” from the other seven books mentioned above since several decades had passed in the development of the Christian community.
The Conservative Paul:
These three books were not written by Paul either and we written some time between the original seven (48-60CE) and the latter three (100CE). These three in-between books of Ephesians, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians take on a more highly traditional “Jewish sect approach” to this newly forming group that would eventually be the new religion called Christianity.
The world lost one of it’s more profound New Testament scholars in 1998 when Raymond E. Brown transitioned from this dimension. Brown still remains controversial among traditionalist Catholics because of their claim that he denied the inerrancy of the whole of Scripture and their claim that he cast doubt on the historical accuracy of numerous articles of the Catholic faith. Of course anyone who disagrees with the fundamentalist-literal approach is deceived (at best). Yet for me, he occupied the center ground in the field of biblical studies, opposing the literalism found among many fundamentalist Christians while not carrying his conclusions as far as many other liberal scholars had.
Finally, let me recommend one of the best scholarly works on the writing of the New Testament bar none. To those who are still teachable, Brown’s, Introduction To The New Testament is a classic and a wonder! It’s available at LRC- or at Amazon.com.
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PS. (From Richrd Rohr’s commentary of today)- “If you accept that there was a Resurrection, that will not necessarily lead to any active or transformative faith. (Of course God could raise up Jesus if he wanted to. Mere belief in miracles does not transform us.) But if you can trust that God would do the same for you, then you also will be changed, and you can begin to change the world. The Resurrection was not a miracle to prove that Jesus was in union with God, although it does have that effect. It is the revelation of how God does things in all of time!
Just saying “Wow!†about Jesus being raised from the dead, does nothing for God, for the world, or for you. It is the same excitement as a magic show. But if you can say “Wow!†about what can and is happening now, then the Mystery of Resurrection has moved into our space and our time—and all time. Resurrection is God’s job description, not a one time magic show.”
Good sound facts coming forth in the post this morning. You are in teacher mode today. This type of knowledge will give credance to the “why” of where we are today. It is different than some may think. You did not just wake up one morning and decide you wanted to upset the status-quo and create some cock-a-mamy story that would cause chaos and confusion, but all is based on well thought out historical facts with many writers, theologians, biblical scholars backing it up. Men and women who sought the truth and presented the questions long before it hit us up side the head. I know some will say we are following deceptive spirits and false prophets. But I pose a question. What if the deception and falsities have been so intricately woven into the canonization and teachings of the Bible that we are now coming out of the cloud instead of the other way around?
My mother was disappointed that I was a girl. If a had been a boy I would have been Paul named after the apostle. God has a sense of humor. “Surprise”
Again, I love it when you talk HISTORY! Gotta get Brown’s book. Some day I’m going to come down and just go thru your library. Keep an eye on me if I have a sack. You might find I “borrowed” a few! Thanks for pointing us to the moon…..
Paulette- Unfortunately, deception runs rampant in most religions because it’s all about CONTROL. I never respond to attacks (only sincere questions of people who want to know and are teachable) because I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. You either bear witness or you don’t! There isn’t a thing NEW in what I’m writing- only new to a few here in the Bible Belt.
Don- Come down and I’ll GIVE you Brown’s 900 page book, so I don’t have to forgive you for stealing it.
And note the PS that I put at the end of my commentary after reading Rohr’s commentary for the day. It’s a HOME RUN!
I looked up three Bible sources to see what they had to say about these books. They all pretty much concur with the times and verify Paul’s authorship. I & II Timothy and Titus, commonly known as the Pastoral Epistles, belong to the period at the close of Paul’s life and provide valuable information about the great missionary Apostle’s thoughts as he prepared to pass on his tasks to others. It is generally believed that I Timothy was written about AD 63. Paul’s second Epistle to Timothy was written approximately AD 66, while Paul was expecting his execution. It is Paul’s last letter. Titus was probably written almost simultaneously with I Timothy from Nicopolis in Macedonia (Titus 3:12).
Ephesians was probably written while Paul was in prison in Rome from about 60-64 AD. Paul probably wrote Colossians about 62 AD, 2 Thessalonians was written about 52 AD from Corinth.
When I was a senior in high school, I took an English course where we read books and proceeded to write a report on each book written. On my first report, I think I made a “C”, so I decided to change my style of writing. When I got my next paper returned, I was asked by my teacher who my ghost writer was! I was furious that she would accuse me of cheating! You can’t always tell who writes something because you’ve judged their penmanship to be of a particular style.
I’m sure someone could look up three more sources that would support Ernie’s pov just as easily. But, what does that prove? Either you are convinced of the dating of the epistles or you are not. If you already are convinced they are of Paul, nothing than change that save Paul returning and telling you face to face, I wrote it or I didn’t write it. So we have to depend on “something else” to convince us. That’s the problem with mankind’s “belief systems” today.
Don, I guess it really doesn’t matter who wrote the epistles, even as we don’t have a verified author of Hebrews, Job, Ruth, etc. What really matters is that we receive the word of God’s message, accepting it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which performs its work in those who believe (1 Thess. 2:13).
Linda – I like the way you worded that: “What really matters is that we receive…God’s message…”
That is what brings us life regardless of how it came to us. The tranformation we go through when we receive “truth” is what we’re all after.
I don’t think any of us has any desire to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. It’s not a “either or” it’s a “and also”. I would not be where I am today if it were not for the scriptures. Nor will I be where I will be tomorrow without the same. Last time I witnessed with my own eyes Ernie spoke directly from the scriptures. For many it comes down to an education on early church history. Especially the emergence of church & state and the fiasco that continues to cause thousands of years later. It will cause some to question, some to turn a blind eye and others to embrace further still what they’ve been taught. May we humbly and respectfully disagree without throwing each other out with the bathwater. We are one…we are the “and also”.
Peace and love.
Ernie, as I read “sojourner’s” comment about your speaking directly from the scriptures, I have a question for you based on what you said Friday night. You said that although you used to operate in deliverance, you no longer believe in demons (correct me if I misunderstood). Jesus gave His disciples authority to cast out demons, so we know that is scriptural (Mark 16:17; Luke 10:19). You had an incredibly successful deliverance service about 6 years ago, so if you don’t believe in casting out demons, how do you account for the fact that so many people had tremendous breakthroughs on that Sunday morning?
He also stated immediately afterwards that he agreed with Carlton Pearson on this matter. If you believe you have a demon and that he is able to cast it out, it will happen. The mode of deliverance depends on the persons belief system. If one believes that they can ask God to deliver that is also possible. I like the idea that the veil has been removed and we are able to approach a very loving divine spirit for all of what ails us. However if we want mans help many are willing because we want people to be whole.
Love to all on this wonderful rainy eve!
Linda- I explained that Friday night as Paulette said, but I’ll say it again. If a person (people) believes IN demons, then they can find them, cast them out- moreover, even create them! There’s a time and a season for everything, and my time with demonology is over.
Wouldn’t it be great if we all believed in Gods love and grace were filling all mens hearts and minds. Ernie I believe we are just being to see the power of believing in His love and grace.
Love Dan
Thanks for reminding me Ernie, of your answer. I’m sure all the people who received deliverance that day (including me) are grateful for your obedience to the Lord.
I don’t believe that the reality of demon spirits has anything to do with whether we believe in them or not. I tried to deny for years they were real, but I ultimately found out that I was perishing for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6) The more we walk in the truth, the freer we become (John 8:32).
People who believe in demons also believe in realms. The realms you chose to live in is what you know..pick your poison so to speak.
The 2 dimensional world of fish is the same… no matter what, they go backwards and forward up and down but if I put my face to the water to speak to them they will not notice or comprehend my presence.
If I put my hand in they will only swim around it,or scram in fear,or not notice it at all as a presence of a higher being.
Until the fish become aware of my presence it is only the tank realm for them.
Koi on the other hand is a fish who is aware of higher beings they come to the surface almost to communicate and honor the outside presence. This fish lives up to 45 years and can be priced up to a million dollars simply because it’s awareness brings longevity and value to them.
We are simply like the koi who notices that the hand in the water is not a demon but a higher dimension who wants to communicate with us. But still there are fish who swears only demons are troubling the waters.
Praise God that Jesus Christ defeated the devil and all demons I used to believe in demons but God open my heart and mind to see that His love defeated all demons and the devil.
Love Dan